Guhapdo, Kumdo Forms

[jinmukwan]

In most styles of swordsmanship there are forms. My question is what other parts of the curriculum do people have?

[jinmukwan]

In our system of Jhe Jung Guhapdo we have Hyung, Cutting, Drawing/resheathing, combat drills, knife techniques, Defense against sword grabbing.

[Klaas Barends]

We have hyungs.
Basic cutting techniques. Basic cutting combinations shaped after the hangul writing system.
Sword vs. sword.
Defense against your sword being grabbed.

Defense against somebody attacking you with a sword.
I am not sure if the latter one is actually part of the hankumdo or hankido curriculum.

Sometimes we do some cutting on jipdan, bamboo or water bottles. But our teacher hold that back from us for a long long time. He wanted us to work on our basics. So actually our system is about basics, basics, basics and more basics

[Bruce W Sims]

Our curriculum is pretty comprehensive.

We start with basic warm-up and warm-up with both JUK-TO and MOK GEOM.

We have single technique and single forms all the way up to 3rd Dan.

We have eight two-person forms and a number of one-steps with which examine the principle at the heart of each of the two-person encounters.

We also have a series of two-person drills to aid in conditioning one's response to the movements of the other person.

Lastly we have validation cutting where-in each technique is "proven" by its use in addressing a target of one sort of material or another. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[jinmukwan]

We too have 2 person drils, I would be interested to know how far these practices go in your Kum Bup? In some of our advanced 2 person drills there are a myraid of encounters, back and forth.

[Bruce W Sims]

The 2-person drills focus on swordsmanship in a way different from the 2-person forms.

Each of the eight 2-person forms ("Pal Poong Ta Geom Beop") represents a particular principle or approach to using the sword. This approach is then expanded upon using the various one-steps associated with that principle. In the HWARANG manual there are 32 one-steps that provide a sound foundation, though once a person understands the various cuts and body movement its certainly possible to expand on this. For instance, the manual only has five disarms, but there are more sword disarms than that in the Hapkido unarmed curriculum. In like manner there are only three "grounded" one-steps (associated with #7 form) but a variety of options that can be practiced from a grounded position once one is familiar with the limitations of working from the lowered position of SODASE (lit: "smaller stance").

The drills, by comparison, are simple pratices to help the student to "tune" themselves to maintaining proper interval, become more facile with movement relative to the actions of another and so forth. The difference is that these drills are focused more on a particular physical action. In Hapkido parlance, I guess one could say that the drills are "training forms" while the others are "teaching forms". Something like that. I had started to organize the training drills into a series of practices to parallel the two-person forms as a way of adding structure but the effort began to cause confusion. I kept the notes but have stopped using the material with my students. Don't fix whats not broke, right?

Once the student hits Chodan they learn BON KUK GEOM BEOP using the SSANGSOODO. This is a pretty common practice if somewhat misguided by modern practitioners. The idea is that beginning at CHODAN one begins to wean-away from the use of the SSANGSOODO and begins to examine the use of the GEOM and the TO. This starts with first learning BONKUK GEOM BEOP with the SSANGSOODO and then relearning it with the GEOM. The experience of executing the same form with two different sword architectures and handling methods is quite a challenge but the insights are invaluable. In like manner, the YE-DO material, is also taught with two sword architectures-- the SSANGSOODO and the TO-- in order to induce the same experience. It is at this point that I have begun to introduce the fruits of my own research in the MYTBTJ. The idea is not to create some new art, but to expand on the core material of the HWARANG GEOM BEOP after the fashion that my own Hapkido teacher encouraged me to further the understanding of unarmed material.

Is any of this helping?

BTW: The GEOM BEOP curriculum is available for your reflection on the Midwest Hapkido website

(see: www.midwesthapkido.com )

and I will be expanding the material on the YAHOO Video website as time goes on. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[mateo]

We too have 2 person drils, I would be interested to know how far these practices go in your Kum Bup? In some of our advanced 2 person drills there are a myraid of encounters, back and forth.

That's interesting. I did some Japanese iaido at one time but there was very little 2 man paired kata involved.

In my own group, we practise kendo kata as well. The Itto-ryu perspective on kendo kata (and they were the group which had the most input into the final version of the kendo kata) is that the kata are primarily for teaching combatants correct distancing with the sword. There is blade to blade contact for showing how to take the centreline in the middle position (opening up an opportunity for the thrust), how to deflect attacks to the left and right of the sword and how to deflect the thrust but not in the detail that a classical system like the Itto-ryu system works with. There are also 3 short sword kata paired against long sword.

Kendo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fx5Ts9i ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzdIpay ... re=related

Itto-ryu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlInzndKv_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_F6_CewiFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94i1kKe0fhE

Here is a look at some really complex kata by the most respected classical Japananese swordsman of his era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQB5Lc1C_a8

Here is probably the fellow who represents that position today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsMSoXrNgo

[Bruce W Sims]

Fascinating clips, Matt! I notice that more modern practitioners are not as reluctant to use speed as one might gather from past presentations.

I also noticed that the one partner in the ONA HA ITTO RYU clip was wearing some pretty respectable pads on his forearms. Guess they tend to play "fer keeps".

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[mateo]

Yes that padded glove ("onigote" or "demon glove" I think it translates roughly) is so expensive it is unbelievable.

Many of the kata either finish with or have at some point a strike to the wrist/forearm area which is seen as both a disarm and a fight finisher. Kendo prefers the head shot as the definitive strike. which would not necessarily be the easier shot in armoured battle.

[jinmukwan]

We too have 2 person drils, I would be interested to know how far these practices go in your Kum Bup? In some of our advanced 2 person drills there are a myraid of encounters, back and forth.

That's interesting. I did some Japanese iaido at one time but there was very little 2 man paired kata involved.

In my own group, we practise kendo kata as well. The Itto-ryu perspective on kendo kata (and they were the group which had the most input into the final version of the kendo kata) is that the kata are primarily for teaching combatants correct distancing with the sword. There is blade to blade contact for showing how to take the centreline in the middle position (opening up an opportunity for the thrust), how to deflect attacks to the left and right of the sword and how to deflect the thrust but not in the detail that a classical system like the Itto-ryu system works with. There are also 3 short sword kata paired against long sword.

Kendo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fx5Ts9i ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzdIpay ... re=related

Itto-ryu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlInzndKv_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_F6_CewiFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94i1kKe0fhE

Here is a look at some really complex kata by the most respected classical Japananese swordsman of his era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQB5Lc1C_a8

Here is probably the fellow who represents that position today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsMSoXrNgo

Hi Matt,

Che Jung Kuhapdo is not Japanese Iaido. We do practice some of the MJER forms but we also teach parts of the Itto Ryu and YJKR Kenjutsu styles.

[mateo]

Hi Matt,

Che Jung Kuhapdo is not Japanese Iaido. We do practice some of the MJER forms but we also teach parts of the Itto Ryu and YJKR Kenjutsu styles. [/quote]

That's cool.

Which kata do you take from the Itto-ryu? From where were they introduced into the practise?

I know the abbrev "MJER", but what style does "YJKR" refer to?

The Daito-ryu group I worked with in Japan trained kendo kata and then modified Ona ha Itto-ryu forms. (Referred to by some as Sokaku-den Ona ha itto-ryu - but that is just a 'working term.) I have no skill in the Itto-ryu forms but I have a buddy who lives not far from Toronto who is quite good at them.

I found lots of concepts in this sword work that conformed very well to concepts that we use in hapkido. But I think I would have found that true with any classical Japanese sword system. The whole "get off the line, deflect and cut" thing.

One should note when watching the videos that the Mizoguchi-ha represents a significantly different style to the Ona-ha system.

[hwoaranggirl]

In Sibpalki we stress the 4 mother techniques:

Strike
Pyodugyeok: Vertical Strike (표두격)
Jwaikgyeok: Right Diagonal Strike (좌익격)
Wooikgyeok: Left Diagonal Strike (우익격)
Gwajawagyeok: Left Striding Strike (좌좌격)
Gwaugyeok: Right Striding Strike (과우격)

Stab
Yeokrinja: Neck Stab (역린자)
Tanbokja: Belly Stab (탄복자)
Jwahyeopja: Left Chest Stab (좌협자)
Wuhyeopja: Right Chest Stab (우협자)
Ssangmyeongja: High Stab (쌍명자)

Block
Geojeonggyeok: Upper Block (거정격)
Seonpunggyeok: Turning Block (선풍격)
Eogeogyeok: Middle Block (어거격)

Slash
Bongduse: Downward Slash (봉두세)
Deunggyose: Upward Slash (등교세)
Hohyeolse: Horizontal Slash (호혈세)

Next is yungno to-pŏp: the six basic routines which are considered the intermediate level of essential sword techniques
1) Ilro : Gwajwagyuk - Jinbo Bangjuk - Jinbo Pyungdae - Junhwan Yogyuk
2) Yiro : Woohyupja - Hodoopyungja
3) Samro : Jinbo Saksal - Jwawoo Hohyulse
4) Saro : Hyangjun Bangjuk - Duhnggyose - Junsin Habyuk - Jwa Pyungdae - Dokrip Woo Pyungdae - Goonbo Pyodoogyuk
5) Ohro : Jibo Jwa Sunpoonggyuk - Hubo Chujang - Goongbo Ilja - JwaIk - Junhwan Wooyik - Doyak Habyuk - Junhwan Pyodoogyuk
6) Yookro : Jwadokrip Gwaegum - Woodokrip Gwaegum - Pyodoogyuk - Wooyikgyuk - Jinbo Ryogum - Hwangum Sangchuk - Gimabo Habyuk - Hyangjun Jwagyuk - Dokrip Pyungja - Hyangjwa Pyodoogyuk

Before starting anything else, it takes many, many years to understand how to strike, how to slash, how to stab and how to block.

[mateo]

Strike? Do you mean a non-cutting strike?

[hwoaranggirl]

Strike? Do you mean a non-cutting strike?

There are many ways to cut an apple for example. When striking it with a knive, it will be cut but it can be slashed as well, or sliced up. The technique is quite different though. We use the word 'strike' for this category of techniques to distinguish them from the other ways of 'cutting'. Perhaps chopping and slicing would be the appropriate culinary terms for cutting.

[Bruce W Sims]

We identify three kinds of cuts:

Draw cut
Press Cut
Push cut.

We also identify two methods for applying these three cuts; either are a large motion or small motion cut.

The most familiar to everyone is the large-motion draw cut that practically everyone knows for its impressive cutting power. The small motion cut, perhaps readily represented with the Chinese PI cut is usually characterized a more of a "harrassing" technique, though practice would prove otherwise. Lastly, the press-cut and push-cuts are almost always used now as part of the close-quarters situation, though incorportion of the turn does allow some opportunities to use these in other situations. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce