Sundo

[Baxter]

I haven't come across this subject in the forum yet so I thought I'd see if we can get some discussion started.
Sundo is apparently a Daoist practice, but like so many other arts history there is the came down out of the mountains line.
Claims of thousands of years of practice and the more incredible, modern founder sitting on a fire for 15 minutes without getting burnt.
History and claims aside, does anyone know how these practices may coincide with chinese taoist practices and whether they are more of just a moving meditation or if they also practice martial aspects.

[JWCYSK]

I apologize for replying so late - I just recently got back on the boards.

"Sun" is the English spelling for the Korean version of what is usually known as Zen in the West. There are martial arts aspects to the art - I would venture to say that it is primarily a martial art. If you have an opportunity to experience it firsthand, I would suggest you do so and then draw your own conclusions.

[mateo]

I saw some "Sun mu do" forms presented while I was living in Korea.

It involved circular motion and movements that involved kicking and balance. A little more Chinese looking than Japanese looking if I might hazard a generalization.

The way I saw it done it didn't look very functional as a fighting art ... but then again lots of forms don't.

While watching it I wondered if it were recreated from Moo Yeh Jee Bo or the Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi. But I had no knowledge of the background of the art.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm0dS0t- ... =1&index=6

[Bruce W Sims]

I saw some "Sun mu do" forms presented while I was living in Korea.

It involved circular motion and movements that involved kicking and balance. A little more Chinese looking than Japanese looking if I might hazard a generalization.

The way I saw it done it didn't look very functional as a fighting art ... but then again lots of forms don't.

While watching it I wondered if it were recreated from Moo Yeh Jee Bo or the Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi. But I had no knowledge of the background of the art.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm0dS0t- ... =1&index=6

The problem comes in, Matt, in the place where what actually was intersects with what people are trying to make of it today.

First off, SON Buddhism is NOT ZEN. It is true that both are contemplative forms of Buddhist practice. Contemplative Buddhism came to Korea during the Unified Silla Period (668-935AD) This is accepted as the beginning of established contemplative Buddhism in the Korea Peninsula. Contemplative Buddhism in Japan had its start with the RINZAI tradition in the 12th Century. The confusion in Buddhist countries is that all contemplative Buddhism is "Zen". Its not. ZEN is the unique Japanese fashion of the practice the way SEON is the Korean fashion, the way that CHAN is the Chinese fashion.

As far as the "fighting methods" found in Buddhist temples, its important to remember that various exercises were required to keep the monks in trim to meet their daily schedules. There was also the need to maintain security in remote and rural areas. However, the idea that temples had structured curriculum after the fashion that MA schools have simply is not true. Rather, what seems to have transpired is that various individuals came to the temple for a variety of reasons and brought skillsets that were sometimes imparted to others at the temple to address conditions of the moment.

There has recently been a growing awareness of skills practiced in temples and monasteries and the pressure to market these skills has caused a range of clips and tapes to be published as with the clip from you tube. My sense is that what you are seeing has much more to do with various forms of exercise some part of which might have fighting applications.
As far as the actual fighting material of the MUYE JEBO and MUYE SHINBO the methods are there for all the world to see. I just really doubt that anyone is going to take time to structure a fighting system around those methods. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Ben_Smith]

Bruce, I think from a historical perspective you may be right but in this day and age I don't think you can argue successfully that there are distinct and different forms of contemplative Buddhism. Maybe at one time Japan could claim Zen as its own but in this day and age I think there has been enough sharing and exchange that it would be accurate to say that Zen is a more generic term, much in the way that HKD is a generic term. FWIW